Episode 5

0:14 – Intro
Welcome to "Scene Change", a podcast by the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division. All about equality, opportunity, accessibility, and the arts. Here, you'll learn about the techniques from performers in the know. We are changing what it means to be blind at one stage at a time. Thank you for joining us today.

Lizzy 0:41 – Introducing the guests
Hello, everyone, and welcome to 'Scene Change'. I'm Lizzy Muhammad Park, the Vice President of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division, and your host of the show today is our Valentine's Day episode. We've invited a couple Andrew and Maura Kutnyak, from our New York affiliate, to share their experience doing aerial dance together. In case you don't know, aerial dance is a sort of combination between acrobatics and dance, Andrew started to practice the art in 2009, and Maura joined him a few years later. Welcome to the show.

Maura
Hello

Andrew
Thanks for having us

Lizzy 1:20 – Describing aerial dance
We're glad that you can make it today. Can you describe a bit about aerial dance what it looks like what it is, and be very descriptive about the visuals in case we have listeners who have never seen it.

Andrew
So the apparatus itself is just a two long pieces of fabric hanging from its point in the ceiling, it could be 20 feet high, it could be 40 feet high, but the silk stripped all the way down to the ground. So that's where we're starting. As you perform, you climb up, you wrap yourself in this fabric, and then you can spin and you can do flips and spiral from the top down to the bottom. It's quite a spectacle.

Maura
You make different shapes. Like it's very, like mold-able. You know, I mean, it's it's it really is, I don't know if anyone remembers those night gowns that like my mom had multiple night gowns. Okay, in the 80s, made of this specific fabric, it's tricot. I don't know if 1980s night gown material, that's all I can call it. It's like this very specific feeling to it. So but it's this satiny, silky material, but so you can do anything with it. It's like there are countless ways you can shape your body, you can do splits and flips and tumbles and all kinds of things.

Lizzy
So is there ever a time when you might be? I've heard, for example, interested you're climbing up the silks? Is there ever a time when you would be just at the bottom of the of the silk? Or are you always sort of climbing up the silks and doing the moves from the top, if that makes sense.

Andrew
There can be a lot of ground choreography where you're, you have one hand on, and then you can have a toe on the ground and put yourself into a really fast spin, and from there, you might go upside down and into like a split over your shoulder and changing poses while you're spinning and that kinds of stuff.

Lizzy
So did the silks look at sort of like two parallel lines? Or do they look more like a U shape?

Maura
Oh, both. Well, right, like I mean, they are exactly that they're two parallel lines that meet at the very at the ceiling in the U. So really, it's one piece of fabric that's folded in half, and the fold would be at the at the ceiling wrapped around a metal either like a shackle or a piece of climbing equipment like a heavy piece of metal. So it's sort of anchored there at the top, and then the strands come down and they are parallel lines coming down so the U would be at the top and the lines meet at the come down to the floor.

Lizzy
And that makes sense as to why before the show, you all tell told me that it's not like aerial yoga, because aerial yoga is actually the opposite.

Maura
Exactly. Exactly, and you know, just to complement what Andrew said like, I mean, I would say probably the most dynamic and interesting aerial performances might involve some floor choreography where you're using the fabric in some way but you might be have your feet on the ground, but then you inevitably are going to move up and down the fabric you know for drops that cover a long distance you're gonna go higher, right but like you might be at the you might be you might be posed, you know, 10 feet up just doing some different, like sort of static poses and moves. So you really are probably going to cover the whole length of the fabric floor to ceiling like in a given performance.

Andrew
Are you interested in knowing what a drop is? Oh yeah, for sure. To start with, you need to have a way to lock your body into the fabric, so that at the end of your drop, you, you don't hit the floor and die, but um, typically you climb up, you can wrap it around your waist, and then down your leg and you climb up a bit higher and hook your leg and then climb up over that, and then so you're all there's all these different ways of wrapping around you and moving your body around to create potential energy. You're winding yourself up like a yo, yo, and then once you're all set, you just let go and you can be have your body horizontal to the ground while you're rotating. 360 degrees or 560 degrees if you if you do multiple rotations, like towards the ground.

Maura
Like 520 degrees like yeah

Andrew
Yeah 520 degrees, excuse me.

Maura
I love hearing Andrew talking about this sorry, I'm not sorry, but this is a sweet anyway. Okay

Lizzy
Yeah, no. So this, this sounds really cool and complex. Could you all describe another common? You guys had that there's all these different body shapes? Could you Could you describe another common body shape that is often seen on stage

Maura
Splits are very common. So you might have like, so again, we've got the two strands. So you might have one sort of tied to each foot, you're up, you know, however high you could be five, two feet off the ground, or 20 feet at this point, but you have one around each foot, and you can you can do a split where you're you've got, you know, one hand on the fabric that's on your front foot and one hand on the fabric that's on your back foot and you're doing a split so that your legs are totally parallel to the ground, and you just you know, so that's a very common pose. Because it's I don't know, see people seem to like that. Can you think of another?

Andrew
Oh, there’s all sorts.

Maura
I know

Andrew
Yeah, there's back bends in different configurations. There's one called Half Monty where you wrapped both of your legs separately, and then you roll over yourself going forward, and so you're upside down, but also in a back bend with your feet over your head? Yeah, that's the Half Monty.

Lizzy
Let let me clarify that. So you said you're upside down, but in a back bend?

Andrew
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Oh, like um. Um, so you know, the moon, the moon crescent shape?

Lizzy
Yes

Andrew
So if your heads at the bottom your, of the crescent, your feet are at the top,

Lizzy
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew
So that kind of idea.

Lizzy
Ah, okay.

Maura
There is a lot of upside down. I guess that. That's a very, you could just say that as a generalized. A common thing is like to be upside down, but that happens all the time with the fabric.

Lizzy
Wow

Andrew
Yeah, hanging from your ankles.

Lizzy
Yeah

Andrew
You can fall into your ankles hanging upside down. really dramatic.

Lizzy 8:22 – What got Andrew and Maura into this style
Wow. This is, uh, this is just, I'm just picturing all of this, and it just seems so cool, Andrew, what made you want to get into this style of dance?

Andrew
You know, I know. I hadn't even seen it before I tried it. Because it's typically something in Cirque Du Soleil, but I just it was a friend of a friend that happened to be teaching it downtown in one of those chaise buildings, and yeah, just wanted to try it out. Sounded interesting.

Maura
Shea does a big local theater here. It's like our biggest sort of like, you know, where the touring Broadway shows will come to Shea's. So there was like a little mini theater there that they were doing it

Lizzy
I see, and Maura what made you want to join after you heard of all the all this flipping upside down doing splits in the air.

Maura
So, I had been I had done various types of dance, you know, I did, like, I did belly dance, and I did burlesque and I okay, so honestly, part of it was that I was just like, jealous. I really, you know, like, he was doing this very, very cool thing and like, it felt impenetrable. It felt impossible, you know, because really, the upper body strings like, is that is real, like I had none to start with. So, part of it was almost like just vanquishing something like like achieving something that seemed impossible, you know? Because it really like I very little to speak up. Anyway. So it was the challenge and then to just join Andrew in something that seems so exotic and beautiful and

Lizzy
Wow, Oh, and you mentioned strength. For the beginners who are thinking about this? Are there any sort of muscle groups? Or? I mean, it seems a little bit scary. Is there a certain level of fearlessness? Or, you know, maybe it's not scary. You know, what, what does it take to, to be able to participate in this?

Andrew
For beginners, you can just hop right in and try a class out when we don't have COVID, and things are open, but yeah, the bar to entry is pretty low. If you want to do things that are more advanced, you definitely are going to have to be working on your upper body strength and pull ups your core strength as well, for sure. You have to yeah, you need those pull ups, and you need to do lots of planks.

Lizzy
So Maura, you're a blind woman, and it's so funny, because I'm sure that as people are listening to this interview, they don't know who's blind, and I love that, and, but it is Maura. So how, how did you sort of jumped right into this? You know? And how would you recommend that other blind people take this leap of faith and say, 'You know what, this sounds cool. I want to go for it.' How would they go about contacting a studio and getting their accommodations? And what accommodations might they want to ask for?

Maura
Yeah, okay. Well, okay, so just to do, let's see, I'll start with the, the narrow end of the answer, which is, I had total faith Well, okay. I mean, it was scary, but I really trust Andrew, and he taught me, he has taught me most of what I've learned, and so, you know, having that trust, you know, it's just really important. I mean, I think at times, he wasn't as, I don't know, firm with me about like, like, I don't know, sometimes I wish he had yelled at me more to do my pull ups, like, because I would just like, whatever they're hard, you know, I don't know, like, it's when it's your husband, you may not quite approach the situation the same way, but um, you know, total trust there, and we had, we know, we don't try this at home, but we had a rig, we had a fabric hung in a tree in our backyard, highly not recommended. So but because so just that's like, do not ever do that, you know, we learned later, and over time, we've actually like, made it the setup more official, don't worry, lots of trust between Andrew and I, and patience and one on one interaction, and I would say that for the zoom out for the more broad and have the answer. You know, contact multiple studios try to communicate directly with, you know, sort of the head teacher or the studio owner, and just, you know, ask lots of questions. The beauty of aerial classes, so I've so I've attended, you know, like I said, interest taught me taught me most of what I've know, but I've also attended lots of group classes, and the beauty of it is that it's you and your apparatus, meaning your fabric, and you get a lot of individual attention, because this is not like a way that we are used to moving, none of us are accustomed to moving this way. So like the teacher will demo something on their fabric, they'll usually describe it and do it at the same time, but then they also most often give everybody a little bit of individual attention showing, showing people what to do that naturally makes it inviting, I think for a blind person because you likely we'll be getting attention along with everybody else. Not I mean, it's not the same, you know, because people are picking things up that I'm not from afar

Lizzy 14:04 – Keywords
So introduce what coming from the perspective of an instructor or assistant are there any descriptive words or I heard you guys using you know, the degrees of a circle and speaking about different dimensions of space? Are there any other key words or descriptions that might be helpful for people to hear?

Andrew
Starting off with the basics, you tie the fabric and the knot and you just have the person put it on like a backpack so you know, your arms are through the fabric and you can just hang right there, and bring your knees up, hold a tuck. The tuck position is definitely something we use a lot. There's just lots of technical jargon that that I feel like don't doesn't mean much.

Maura
I think to just left it Right, like put your left foot here or, and there's also a lot of hands on, like, the teacher might put your body, like move your leg or show your body where to go. If because it's, it can get confusing if you're upside down and someone's like, move your left foot this way, and you're like, Wait, my what where, you know, because you're upside down, and it's not, but so like, sometimes they might touch you, and that's the thing, too, I think you're gonna learn everything pretty low to the ground. So there is a physical, I mean, you don't have to be touched, but that is one way to communicate the information is to just be to be shown

Lizzy
That makes, and actually, you know what, that's good. Because I was wondering, I think my perception was that it would be described first, and then you'd be going up into the air, and then they would kind of edit it from there, but it makes sense that you are sort of learning it on the ground as you would with any dance class.

Maura
Yeah

Lizzy
Yeah, and then as you get better, I'm assuming you go higher and higher. Is that what works?

Maura
Exactly, exactly

Andrew
Yeah, yeah

Maura
And to connect what Andrew said, like, when you get I think, Lizzy, you and I talked about this, when you were thinking about belly dance, and how like, once you have a certain set of vocabulary down in a way, like now then it's a matter of combining different vocabulary terms. So like, they might say, Okay, do a left knee hook, and then a thigh hitch, and so maybe you've never done that combination before, but when you hear those things together, you're like, Okay, I know what those things are, and you can knit them together. So that's some of it. like as we get more advanced, you can you can hear those terms and know what to do with your body.

Lizzy 16:36 – How Maura and Andrew met
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. To have you have definitely given everyone something to think about and to to consider, especially as things start to open up, and hopefully COVID starts to wind down. It's definitely something that people can can consider participating in. So now I want to move into the more sort of like Valentine's Day aspect of having the two of you here. It's really cool, that you have this bonding time that you can spend together and practice art and do something that's that's really cool, and just it's a different, it adds a different dimension. So could you guys tell us a little bit about your personal story, maybe like how you guys met or like how long you've been married or something like that.

Maura
Should I start Okay, okay. Okay, we met in a coffee shop, like 15 and a half years ago, and so well before aerial was part of our lives, and we met through a mutual friend I was with, like, I was with a friend, we walked into this coffee shop and that friend recognized Andrew, they had known each other, you know, in the past, and I was like, Ooh, he smells good, and the rest is history three children later. So really just get that Burberry cologne

Andrew
I mean, that's what I thought when I first came into the Zoom meeting. I was like, Wow, this smells great. Yeah, you can tell from the voice how they smell. Absolutely. does. Yeah. So I guess it's just it's amazing to see more progress and work so hard to gain every little inch of strength that she can get. It's it's a long process and to see that is really a beautiful thing. Yeah, it's all about that. It's all about the journey.

Maura
So you're talking about specifically my like every shred of progress I made that the aerial fabric or whatever

Andrew
Yeah

Maura
But so you you're not talking about like the first moment you saw me and your heart beat and everything that you forgot to mention that

Andrew
That’ll happen

Lizzy 19:02 – The place aerial has had in their lives
so let's so what is the place that aerial's had in your lives and you know as a way to maybe as like a stress reliever or something more along those lines. How has the art been able to maybe like enhance other like maybe like communication, for example is something that's been enhanced? I don't I'm just throwing ideas out there. What has been your experience practicing in art together

Maura
Like first the way I feel an Andrews performing, even though I really cannot, like see what he's doing, but when he gets up on the fabric like and we've had a fair amount of performance experience together, we've performed a lot and like whenever he goes up to perform, I don't know I get so happy. It's just it's it's kind of crazy because I really can't like appreciate his art but I know you know from feedback and just from his personality and his choice of music, like he's a beautiful dancer, and it just like is so like strong, I don't know, it just makes me really happy, and so that is just like a pure emotion, emotional response that I get, and like, definitely communication is for better and worse, you know, there are times where we, you know, you might be bickering while you're practicing. It's totally, you know, and like, it's like, Why didn't you tell me I was supposed to, like, whenever I do this, or that, wrap the fabric three times, I don't know, but it's like, it's everything, but it really is like, particularly we've, we had started taking classes together. When gyms opened up for 30 seconds here in the in the summer and fall, and it was just really nice to get in the car and go away from the children and not so much. No, and just like have that thing that felt like it was just for us to do and like, I don't know, feel like magical unicorns.

Lizzy
So what have the two of you been doing to stay strong while you while you are unable to be in? You know, to practice in the studios? Pull Ups?

Andrew
I'd recommend pull ups. I don't do them as much as I should, and we have some silks hanging up in the house. So we find those once in a while two core exercises. Yeah, cardio isn't bad, either. Sure, sure.

Maura
It is a full body thing. So yeah, he did it, but yeah, we we like remodeled just before our third child was born, we remodeled our house, oddly enough, we were at we added a human to the family and removed a bedroom all at the same time. So that we put in an aerial fabric point. So now we have like, like a 20 foot clear story, you know, from from the first floor up to the attic, basically, where we have a fabric hung. So, you know, ideally, we would be climbing that every every day or so, but it's not as frequent, but the kids use it like they just use it as like a swing, because you can tie a knot and sit two feet off the ground. So I don't know, that's kind of cool.

Lizzy
No, no, I was gonna ask you if the kids ever like, you know, get interested in they're like, hey, like, I want to, you know, either swing off of it or, you know, do something else. I don't know how adventurous your kids are, I would imagine, relatively so given that both of their you know, parents participate in this style of dance. So that was really cool.

Maura
Yeah, our daughter in particular, interested and she she climbs here and there, and, but like, really, they all just kind of use it as like, they just sit in it and swing around. It's just kind of a fun. Yeah.

Lizzy
No, that is really cool. You know, like swinging like, you know what, there's back and forth? Or in circles? Or just yeah, there's a lot of fun. So you said that you have the two of you have performed a lot together, and I'd like to hear about some of those experiences. What's that? Like? You know, what? Are you to sort of, you know, performing at the same time? Is it one at a time is are these you know, big shows? Or you know, or is it just just your show where you're, you know, performing with other people. I want to know all of it. This sounds really cool, and it kind of everything you said, but go ahead and-

Andrew
yeah, everything you said, but in certain situations, like at Buffalo River Works. We had multiple fabrics hung from the ceiling there during that festival, what was because-

Maura
because, yeah, gigantic music festival, and but this venue just to give you context, it's a huge, it's on the river, and it's a big, like, I don't even know restaurant that sits right on the like a roller skating rink. So it's this enormous arena, essentially, and we had points hung there. So we had a lot of bigger performances there. Because they can just fill the place.

Andrew
And besides that, we've done some festivals here and there. smaller things, just outdoors, we have a rig, it's basically 20 foot swing set kind of thing, and can just stick that in the car and go anywhere.

Lizzy
Wow

Maura
Yes, we've done some outside like summer festivals and stuff.

Lizzy
Yeah, I was gonna ask you, I was gonna say, you know, how would you do this would be like this outside, but that sounds really cool to the idea of having, you know, a rig that you guys can just kind of swing from and you know, let's say your moves on.

Maura
It's collapsed. It's collapsible, like, it's like, basically, it's just like a million iron bars that you connect together and you can make it like, however taller, short as you want. I don't know. I didn't haven't thought through how to clearly articulate all of these complicated things

Andrew
It’s a quadrupod

Maura
Yeah

Andrew
It’s narrower at the top

Maura
Yeah, swing set is really the perfect is that exact that exact shape, but 20 feet tall

Lizzy
Is there ever a time where the two of you would have your aerial fabric set up like side by side almost and be dancing together? Or would it always be sort of one at a time?

Andrew
Sometimes we do corresponding choreography where we're actually doing something simultaneously, but that takes a lot of preparation. A lot. Sometimes we just have one person is still while one person is moving, and you can go back and forth. You can do anything you want, as far as how you present.

Maura
You know, one of our last performances was at the festival we mentioned music is art. It's a gigantic, you know, just one of those summer festivals where there's like 20, 30, 60, I don't know, innumerable amount of bands and, you know, multiple stages and different types of performances and vendors. So this was at Buffalo River Works. Then we, we were there with a crew of aerialists, I think, I don't know, maybe eight of us, and so I don't know, it was one of our last performances that we did together, Andrew and like, I was just a really, it felt very in sync. It was really what like a beautiful song, and I just remember feeling like, I had no idea. I mean, you were far from me, but I just felt very connected. Like it was I don't know, that moment is very much burned into my mind. Like, the music was great, and it was really good atmosphere, and I felt very connected to you, even though I really didn't know. Like, I didn't know if we were actually in sync in any way, but I felt like we were in my mind. Now you just should say like, Yes, we were I felt it too. He's like, no, actually look terrible, but next question.

Andrew
I wasn’t even looking at your direction. Yeah. You don't have to be in sync there. When there's so much going on there. There's 1000 People looking all different directions. Because there's one music stage here one music stage over there.

Maura
Yeah

Andrew 
There's but the presentation, like, all together, like just it looks good. Whether or not you're like

Maura
No, yeah

Andrew
Doing a synchronized quote, unquote, thing.

Maura
Good point, and you know what, it wasn't even so much that I felt that we were in sync as in like, doing the exact same thing, but I don't know, just the vibe and the wavelength. I felt like, I don't know. It feels

Lizzy
Like a connection

Maura
Yeah

Lizzy 27:33 – Music in performances
No, I totally understand what you're talking about it, it sounds just so cool. Could you you've mentioned music a few times, um, for those who haven't been, you know, a part of a performance or even attended a performance. Could you describe the music? Is there a certain style that that you usually use in your performances or just tell us a little bit about that, you know, describing the music of it.

Andrew
There are so many different kinds of music to choose from, and we use them all really, whether it's hip hop, classical, weird New Age stuff. electronica swing. Yeah, anything at all, the sky's the limit

Maura
I think we have performed to like all of those things. It it can depend on like, the performance, like what the venue is what the, you know, the people that have hired you or that have invited you to perform like, you know, what kind of event they're putting on, and what you're in the mood for, like, I don't know, I did a Weezer song one time. I think that last performance that I had referenced, we did Kishi Bashi is like, I don't even know how to classify his music, but that was what we were dancing to that time, but it's really anything you want, and, you know, you just have to find a way to match match the music in some way.

Lizzy
Wow, and you'll imagine swing, I've done a little bit of swing dance in the past. Is it common for the two of you to almost mix forms of dance? So there's, you know, there's the the aerial style of dance, but then there's also you know, swing dance, have you? If you're dancing to swing music or hip hop or something else? Are you sort of bringing in elements of those styles of dance as well? Or is it just something else entirely? And what's your experience been bringing in different styles of dance if you've done that?

Maura
Alright, so aerial dance has its, like set of moves, which are innumerable, but you know, like, the ways you use the apparatus that are specific to it, right? And then there's whatever style you put on top of that, and that is, you know, that's like the way you move your hands or the way you whether you point your foot or not, like Are you are you sort of moving? Are you using more like ballet body positions or maybe you're being a little more artistic and I don't know just moving your arms and feet and legs and different ways. So it's like, there's the baseline of aerial moves, and then there's the romance that you lay on top of it, and that that may be influenced by whatever style of dance, you know, isn't appropriate for the music or your feeling at the time. What do you think?

Andrew
Yeah, when you're up there, you're constrained you, there's only so many things you can do, but that's where the creativity comes in. Because while you may be all tied up, you, you can find ways to move yourself that the music can tell you just by the rhythm and the emotion that it's hitting it with, you have to be listening. While you're up there, to know how you want to move

Lizzy
It feels like the sort of thing where you like, in order to be safe, you need to keep your body and maybe pretty firm, and tight. You're using like you like, you know, the both of you have said you're using different expressions to convey, I guess, different different styles. So that could be you know, music or feeling or anything else is that right? So you're not, you're not essentially like moving like you would in a hip hop or ballet, you're just sort of posing as you would in those styles of dance, is that right?

Andrew
Not quite, you can be like, you can have a lot of energy, you can be doing things really fast, and in different types, types of timing and rhythm, listening to that beat, there, there's ways to be really aggressive, or be really slow, in your motions to give a person the sense of gravity or lightness, or just grief. Like, there's so many emotions tied up into the sounds that you're hearing, and you can find ways to make your body show that to other people around you.

Maura
Arching of the back are like the way you move your hands and like, are they soft? are they hard? You know, I don't know. It is subtle, but it's like, it's something that comes to you. I think once you know, the basic once you feel safe, and you know what is safe, you know, when you are, you know, when you're basically supported, and you can use your body a lot, and you know, when you can't, you know, you just learn those sort of where those moments are.

Lizzy
So could you describe for our listeners a specific example of how you would stylize the aerial dance, so not the aerial dance itself, but just how you would express it in, say, for example, a more I feel like maybe ballet would be an easier way of doing it, but it could be any, any example that you all choose

Maura
The first thing that came to mind was a performance that I did to a bucking beat box song, and their music is I don't actually know how they would categorize it, I think of it as sort of having a Middle Eastern and, but like, sort of hip hop and sort of Middle Eastern influences in it, like I kind of belly dance, you know, but but with a modern take. So I did it that song, and like, you know, in that case, I remember at one point I was, you know, doing like snake arms, which is like, you know, I don't know, that's, I don't really like that term, per se, but it's a way of moving your arms and sort of a wave pattern from the one your your arms are extended sort of an T and from the fingertips of one arm to the fingertips of another, you're creating sort of a wave throughout your arms. So I was, you know, supported by the fabric. I think I was almost I think it was actually kind of parallel to the ground, but I was doing that arm gesture, just sort of supported at my hips by the fabric. So that's one way you might do it or that same piece. I think I was doing some like kind of legged stuff. I was like kicking or like, you know, using my feet and my legs.

Lizzy
Wow. So you so you and that makes sense to when you guys say that you're not just posing, you are like you can still be moving. So you said for example, you said in that example that you were just supported by your hips. So it's not you can you it seems that you can wrap the fabric around any part of your body, that's probably a little too general. Tell Tell us more about how you wrap the fabric and where you you might typically wrap it and how that helps to support you know, the body weight, for example.

Andrew
There are there are many ways that we wrap that around ourselves where it's a complete resting pose. You're not even using your hands to hold on anymore. You're just locked in there that can take many forms. You can have it just around your waist and locked off around your leg, and then that gives you with your arms to move around, your other leg is pose-able, you can twist through your back and arch and you can curl up into a little ball to be small.

Maura
So you can make a chair, you can basically you can be, you can you can maneuver in such a way that you ultimately create a chair for yourself. So, you know, just imagine you're sitting on a swing, but instead of it actually being like, a bench under your bottom, it's, it's got like a wrap around one leg, and then you've got a bench under yourself. So you're, you know, you're just sitting there, we could be 20 feet, 200 feet off the ground, wherever, and you've got a little chair that you can do whatever, you know, move your legs, you can do different drops and poses in that position. Like there's a lot. Yeah, it's it's, I don't know, it's like, string theory, man. It's in infinite possibilities.

Andrew
You can, yeah, there's there's foot locks where you're just you wrap your feet in such a way and you can stand on your feet, but you're all the way up in the air. You can be hanging from your ankles, it really hurts a lot, but it holds you fine. So you can be hanging upside down from your ankles, your hands are totally free, and you can spin around in circles, you can grab the tails of the fabric that are hanging and arch up into a scorpion pose.

Maura
Like, oh, we gotta go do some aerial. This sounds fun.

Lizzy
You guys are making it sound really cool. I have this huge smile on my face. Because I'm just like, wow, like, it just it sounds so exhilarating. I'm just like, wow, like, it just sounds so cool.

Maura
Beautiful, and it's difficult, and that's what makes it so fun. It's really hard, but only to I mean, after a certain point, it's not so hard, but you know, it's like, that's what that's part of the beauty of it is that it's like it's a challenging thing, and it's makes your brain move along with your body, you know?

Andrew
Yeah, unlike working out and just like pumping a machine over and over again, you have, like real feedback, you're making progress on something. So instead of just working out, you feel like you're actually moving forward.

Maura
For me, like, my love letter to aerial is like written, you know, on the basis that like, it feels like it will always be it will always be there for me. Like with other forms of dance. I just I felt like not as connected to my medium. I love dancing and like, I don't want it to. I feel like I'm making it sound like you can't dance if you're blind, and I don't that's not the message. No, no. Yeah. I just felt like with aerial, because you are always in. It's the fabric. The fabric is like your stage and your dance partner all in one, and you always are in contact with it. You always know where your center of gravity is where you know how to interact with with your medium. Because you're touching it, you're manipulating it, you're you're feeling it, it just feels like it will always be there for me. I don't know.

Lizzy
Yeah, no, that actually makes that makes perfect sense. The both of you have talked about gravity, and I feel like I would be remiss to not ask what role gravity plays in this in this art and, and how you feel when you're up there working with gravity is that the right way to phrase that

Andrew
When, when you're up there, your connection to the ground is above you. Because that's where you're anchored, you're anchored above and below you, there's nothing to support you.

Lizzy
So that's really true. Wow.

Andrew
The way it's, it's like being on a different planet. It just the rules are completely different, and before you get up there, you need to be on the ground rehearsing over and over again until you're confident to go up and try something for real. Because when you're up there, there's no forgiveness, you can't make mistakes. Because there's real danger. Like always.

Maura
I would say like, you can make mistakes but Okay, so like, there there have been occasions where I like do something weird and suddenly like I am locked in a way that I do not know how to get out of and I might be like 15 feet off the ground, and you know at first it's okay, but you you can come to a point where you're like scared because you're like, Okay, I don't know how to fix this and I'm sort of running out of stamina. Ah, you know, so there is that sort of those points there are those points of tension where you can get a little scared and doing a drop. I mean, gravity is probably most acutely felt when you're going to do a drop.

Lizzy
So how do you get out of those situations?

Maura
Well, okay, you sweat a bit, and then Andrew patiently, and like maintaining a great deal of calm, like, just tries to describe what to do. So he'll Yeah, like, I mean, it's it hasn't it's, I can think it's probably like comfortable on one hand, how many times this has happened, where I really feel kind of, like, scared, but like, yeah, basically, Andrew will, he can usually see what you know, what's gone wrong, where the fabric has went, went astray and sort of taught me okay, like, you need to do this with your leg and just with your hands.

Andrew
Bring your left foot forward.

Maura
Yeah

Andrew
The right fabric and put it around your left elbow.

Maura
Yeah, put both hands on the right fab right hands fabric. I don't know, you know? Yeah, they'll just talk me through it, basically.

Lizzy 41:18 – Safety features and clothing
That's great. So is there any sort of a crash mat or, I don't know, secondary fabric set up and you know, under you? What are the safety features that are implemented with this style dance?

Andrew
You're just practicing with a crash mat underneath you. If you're doing certain things on winging trapeze, they put you in a whole harness system to keep you up, but that's a whole nother story. Trapeze. Yeah, but for aerial stills, there's just a mat under you and you practice everything. Just a couple feet from the ground until you got it down pack.

Lizzy
Wow. That's so cool. What what did the outfits usually look like? What do you guys usually wear for your performances?

Andrew
You can't wear anything long and flowy and pretty like that. You it has to be pretty tight to your body. I like to put on a leotard and just some either tights or a sweat pants or something like that. Because the thing with the leotard is you couldn't get fresh burns all over your hips and back and everything.

Maura
If you're not wearing a leotard like so if you have exposed skin. Yeah. So that's why leotard protects you from like your shirt hiking up and the fabric sort of being abrasive on your skin.

Lizzy
I see

Andrew
So they lose their shirts, because they get they're wearing a loose shirt that gets all knotted up in the fabric and then rips apart.

Maura
Yeah, that can happen. Yeah, well, that's, that's a that's a whole other kind of performance, but anyways. Yeah.

Lizzy
So the leotard for any listeners who did not listen to our ballet episode, you should go back and listen to that one, but just in the in the meantime, could you describe what a leotard is? For people who are listening who are not yet dancers and have not yet listened to our ballet episode.

Maura
Okay, imagine if I just if a t-shirt, and a bathing suit had a baby. That was really hard. Find it really, you know, it's like wear your shirt in your underwear or one and, and then you can put pants over that. You can even actually we also often wear unitards, which is essentially your tank top and your pants are then totally connected one piece. Yeah.

Lizzy
So a unitard kind of looks like a jumper in a way?

Maura
Yeah.

Lizzy
Okay, gotcha.

Maura
But obviously better material.

Andrew
it's yeah, it's usually lycra or something like that.

Maura
Cotton Spandex

Andrew
You can get a cotton cotton is nice.

Maura
You just pull it on though. You like put it on through the neck hole. Like you put your legs into the neck. Pull it on up.

Andrew
No zippers because zippers can rip the fabric

Maura
But if you're me, I will just say if you're me for a performance, you'll probably have like feathers and things and sparkly stuff in your hair, and if possible sparkly things on the on the costumes like you know, for your average practice day you're gonna wear just like cotton, cotton leggings and a leotard or whatever, but for performance As you know, things get very colorful. You might I might wear like layered like, I don't know, like purple fish nets over green tights and then have like, I have one sort of sparkly green unitard or leotard thingy that has like a faux skirt. So it's like, not too much spirit, but it's sort of like skirty. I don't know, and then I'm like, just so you know, there's sparkles and feathers involved to everybody

Lizzy
Yeah. Yeah, no, that's, that's so cool. So would that be? Perhaps a part of your expression? Like, if you're doing a certain style of like, say, I don't know, swing dance? Would you do more like the, I don't know, like the feathers? And you know, like different things like that? Or do you just kind of base it on your personal style, no matter what kind of music you're dancing to?

Maura
I think you style it for the venue, the event the music totally like it changes? I mean, but I guess, I don't know, certain people probably tend towards certain flourishes over others, I would guess, right.

Lizzy
That's really cool, and I've been told to ask one more question, when it comes to grabbing the silks? Are there ever times when you need to grab a very specific part? And if so, how do you do that non visually?

Maura
Okay

Andrew
Trying to think like some sort of weird situation like that.

Maura
I mean-

Andrew
It's all

Maura
Okay, there might be a time where you're supposed to grab the fabric above your knee rather than below your knee, and I mean, it's hard to describe exactly the context there, but so so you might know, I need to reach up above my left knee and grab the, we call it a pole. If it's like above your, I don't know, if it's hanging in a certain way where this fabric is tight. You call it the pole, because it's kind of a rigid piece of fabric at that point, but yeah, so you'll, you'll grab above your knee, and you know where that is, but yeah, I think that comes down a lot to like, knowing your left and your right knowing, knowing which part of the fabric is loose, and which part is is like is like tight and bearing weight, and some of that stuff is intuitive, and some of that stuff is is you're coached, you know about how to do it. Do you have another way to answer that Andrew?

Andrew
Yeah, where are you grabbed is always relative to where your own body is, and

Maura
Yeah

Andrew
sometimes you need to turn your wrist around backwards, or you just need to do your regular swing set hand position, or the flamenco style grip, but

Maura
I think you answered it perfectly. I think you summed it up really perfectly. Like where you're, where you're grabbing is always in relation to your own body, which really helps you just know where to put your hands.

Lizzy 47:54 – wrapping up
Wow, this is this is it's so cool. I want to thank you both for joining us today and for describing the complexities of such a visual art. It's, it's just been really, I don't even know how to describe it, like, cool is on a good enough word, like, you know, to, to describe this episode, and just how wonderful it's been to hear about this art and be able to sort of not mentally experience it, but get a far better idea than I had of what it what it could be like. So thank you, thank you for encouraging our audience to take lessons and for showing them that as far as lessons go, it seems like signing up for it, and taking the classes is especially as a blind person, it's not the difficult part. It seems like the difficult the difficult part will be the physical sticking to workouts and strengthening, you know, the correct muscles and building up a certain level of fearlessness and practicing enough, it sounds like we'll be you know, the more challenging aspects of it, but those are going to be the same challenging aspects for anyone. So it's been really nice to watch the two of you play off of each other and share responses and so on and so forth. This is this has been a really great episode. Thank you for joining us today.

Andrew
Thanks for having us on your show. It's been a real pleasure. I hope that everybody finds their inner circus freak.

Katelyn
I'm Katelyn MacIntyre, president of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of "Scene Change". If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and visit our website at NFB dash pad DOT org (nfb-pad.org). There you'll find links to our social media, membership, and resources for blind performers. Thanks to everyone who makes this show happen. "Scene Change" is produced by Shane Lowe, Chris Nusbaum, Seyoon Choi, and Precious Perez with music by Ryan Strunk and Tom Page. Remember, you can be the performer you want. Blindness is not what holds you back. We'll see you next time.