Chris 0:00 – Special honor for Lizzy
Hi, everyone, and welcome to this episode of Scene Change. I'm Chris Nussbaum, a board member of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division, and a member of our podcast team. I know you're not used to hearing my voice on the podcast. So let me tell you why I'm here for a couple minutes. The team felt that we should take a minute to acknowledge something very special. That happened a couple days after we recorded the episode for this month. On July 10th, at the banquet of the National Convention of the National Federation of the Blind, the host of our podcast, Lizzy Mohammed Park was honored with the $12,000 Kenneth Jernigan scholarship, the highest award bestowed upon college students by the National Federation of the Blind. So that's a very well deserved honor. And all of us in the performing arts division are really proud of Lizzy, and very thankful for all that she does in everything in her life, but especially the leadership she provides in our division, as our Vice President, and as the host of our podcast. So

Shane
That's huge.

Chris
Thanks, Shane. So huge congratulations to Lizzy, from all of us at the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division. Great job Lizzy. Well deserved. Thanks for all you do. So with that out of the way, let's jump into this month's episode. And it's a very special episode indeed, we’ll now let you enjoy our live recording of Scene Change from national convention, as we hear all about audio description.

Katelyn 2:12 Intro
Welcome to "Scene Change", a podcast by the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division. All about equality, opportunity, accessibility, and the arts. Here, you'll learn about the techniques from performers in the know. We are changing what it means to be blind at one stage at a time. Thank you for joining us today.

Lizzy 2:40 Introduction to Roy Samuelson, Everette Bacon, and Dr. Joel Snyder
Hello, everybody, and welcome to scene change. I'm Lizzy Mohammad Park, the Vice President of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division, and you're host of the show. Now, if you listen to this podcast, you know that with every episode, I promise you that it is our best one yet. And I always mean it, but today, I really mean it. This is our 10th episode. We're recording it in a live virtual setting. And we've got joining us today, Roy Samuelson, who is a leading, well respected Hollywood voiceover artist. He's been doing this for over 20 years. And he's done all kinds of commercials from Target to McDonald's, you name it. Apparently, people worldwide say hey, I know that voice. Up next. We've got someone who really needs no introduction. We think of him as our Utah affiliate president and a national board member because he is, but you probably didn't know that he managed several blockbuster locations in Texas, and has a degree in music Everette Bacon, who serves as the Federation's representative on the disability Advisory Committee to the FCC. And last but certainly not least, we have Dr. Joel Snyder. He is the author of the visual made verbal. He's the president of audio description associates. And he is the founder and senior consultants of the audio description project. Thank you each for joining the show. I've told the audience a little bit about what you do. But in plain English, could you just give us an overview of what your job entails as far as audio description?

Roy 4:30 Roy introduces himself
Awesome, thanks. My name is Roy Samuelsson and thank you for the introduction. I've recorded about 1000 episodes of feature films and television shows for audio description voicing, I'm not a writer, I'm just the voice. But I've been a pretty strong advocate to make sure that blind people are included in this work. And I've interviewed about 100 or so plus professionals in audio description including a lot of the panelists here so it's a real honor to be here. Thank you.

Lizzy
It's awesome. We're glad to have you, up next, how about Joel Snyder?

Joe 5:03 Joel introduces himself
Hi, Lizzy, thank you so much. What a great honor it is to be on a panel with my friends. Roy Samuelson and Everett Bacon, I know them both well, and as as marvelous advocates in particular for audio description, and that's where I placed myself I was a part of the very first group of audio describers. We pioneered the idea, the name back in 1981. In the Washington, DC area, my background is in theater and voice work. But I had been a volunteer reader at the Washington Ear radio reading service in DC. And that's where the world's first ongoing audio description service was started, as I say, back in 1981, and I've stayed with it for about 40 some years now, doing description, writing description, of voicing description in all genres, and training describers. So speaking on description, in golly, over 40 states and 60 some countries now So, but it is a pleasure to be back with the NFB I remember doing several workshops, some years back when you had your conference in Atlanta, and it was great fun, I look forward to working with you further.

Lizzy
Thank you so much we’re so glad to have you. And last but not least Everette Bacon

Everette 6:24 Introduces himself
Hi Lizzie. Again, it is also a pleasure to be on this panel with two good friends, Roy and Joel, who are outstanding audio describers and outstanding advocates in the field of audio description, I kind of came into audio description as an enjoyer of audio description. Back when I was managing  blockbuster videos, I was not a member of the National Federation of the Blind. And I was just kind of doing my own thing as this store manager. And I happen to manage the store in Texas, the only store in all of Texas at the time that had audio described via video cassettes, VHS cassettes. And so we had those, I was able to get those as part of the manager of the inventory. And so we had them there. And that that's kind of how my introduction to audio description. And from there, I've done a lot of advocate advocacy with movie theaters, in not only in Texas, but now in Utah. When I moved to Utah in 2004, we didn't have theater with audio description at all. And so that kind of became my focus. And I've now expanded that to who now all of our theaters have audio description, thanks to the work of outstanding organizations like the ACB and the NFB, and advocates out there everywhere. But you know, now that I've kind of focused on a live theater and all kinds of other things. And then being a part of the National Federation of the Blind, I've been able to work with the FCC, and on their disability Advisory Committee on on things like making sure that general guidelines for audio description are out there. And I know that's a big passion of Joel's as well. So that's a little about me.

Lizzy 8:25 How Joel got started in audio description
That is excellent. So glad that you could join us today. Now, Joel, would you mind telling us a bit about how you got started in audio description? Um was there any specific training or you know, maybe connections experience that led to your success in the field?

Joel
Wow, well, sure. Golly, this goes back a little ways. I'm the oldest person on this panel, I think. me but no back again, my background is in theater and median voice work and such and several, similarly to red to ray’s, Roy hello to Roy’s. But in the 70’s I was was already a member of actors equity Association and AFTRA at the time. And I had been doing just in my spare time, reading talking books, reading books to people who are blind. As a volunteer. I had recorded talking books for the Library of Congress, and actually in 1972, joined with the Washington Ear the radio reading service as a volunteer reader. And, you know, my main assignment was the Washington post on Sundays. And come on, what's the first thing people turn to when they get their Sunday paper? Be honest, right the comics as well. I realized, gee, how am I going to read the comics without describing the images, they're all about the images. And so I fumbled around and tried to display Rog as best I could But it was not till 1980 when Dr. Margaret Pfanstiehl, the founder of The Washington Ear, a blind woman, and Chet Avery, a blind Department of Education worker was on they were both on a panel at Arena Stage and, and being about accessibility and being told about assistive listening for the first time, isn't that great? And they figured, well, golly, if it's just a microphone on stage, couldn't someone hold a microphone offstage and describe what's happening on stage for the benefit of people who are blind, you know, using the pauses between bits and pieces of dialogue or, or sound elements. And Arena stage to their credit said, let's give it a try. So Margaret, to the ear, she knew I was there, of course, as a Englander and performer and and a volunteer there for almost 10 years at the time, she pulled me off to the side over there about three or four others that we began to hammer this thing out this thing that would be called audio description. And the first play began in performing arts. The first production was Major Barbara at Arena Stage in the summer of 1981. That was described and then we went on from there. Several years later, we produced I wrote in voice, some of the first audio described broadcast television pieces for a WGBH on the old American Playhouse, back in the 1985. I do want to mention quickly, though, that Gregory Frazier was the first person to write about the idea of audio description, and that was in 1977, or 78, as a master's thesis in San Francisco State University. So all due credit to the late greate Gregory Frazier, and of course, to the late, Margaret Pfanstiehl as well.

Lizzy
So if I may oversimplify what you just said, You started off reading the paper, describing the comics, and then you went into describe plays, and then you just kind of met with the right people and just started doing audio describing everything

Joel
Pretty much that's that's kind of

Lizzy
Very fascinating

Joel
It's not just the comics, of course, newspapers are—

Lizzy
of course, of course

Joel
replicating photographs. And so we tried to describe them as well, not just, we were all of the readers, we're bumping into that issue. But there was no formal way to do it. There was no structure, there were no fundamentals for audio description, and we develop them over time.

Lizzy 12:38 Everette’s Recommendation for people who would like to get involved with advocating for radio description
Wow. Now, Everett, we know how you got started, you know, with with some different audio description, things and things like that, and blockbuster. But I wonder if you have any recommendations for people who like to get involved with advocating for audio description.

Everette
You know, the biggest thing is, they need to work with a local organization that and get a group together, that would reach out to movie theaters, or live venues, or Sundance Film Festivals, things like that. Those kinds of areas are still lacking in audio description. And then people really need to lobby the FCC. Not enough people lobby, the FCC complained to the FCC. And we need more of that out there. And if anyone wants help in doing that, all three of us are excellent people to help you advocate with the FCC, because the more people we get out there doing that, the better. And the more audio description, quantity and quality we will get.

Lizzy 13:55 Everette’s push for advocacy for audio description in the movie theater
Now, don't go away just yet. I have a follow up question for you. I love that you mentioned getting a group together. And you know, I don't remember the the verb that you use, but advocating at, for example, a local movie theater. Isn't that what you did when you got started in Utah? There was something different. I read that there was a local movie theater, and you push for there's a local chain, and you really pushed for for advocacy and for audio description in the theater. Is that true.

Everette
That is exactly right. I was living here in Utah. We just moved here and I wanted to go see a movie audio described and none of the theaters had it. Megaplex theater is a local chain in Utah, and they have about six different theaters all over the state of Utah. And so I with a couple-- I was a member of the National Federation of the Blind of Utah, the Salt Lake chapter, and just myself. I led the group with about five other members we got a meeting with the CEO of megaplex theatre. And advocated Friday description. And we made it a big event, you know we that he really liked the idea of bringing it to the to the megaplex chain. And we were able to get the media involved on television and radio or there and publicize the event. And the first movie was shown, I think it was Toy Story. And it was shown and in the entire theater was full of blind people, and they had the audio description live throughout the whole theater, so everybody could hear it. And from there, it's just grown exponentially.

Lizzy
That's awesome. And it's great to know that you know, the group the size of the group that you had, you know, you don't need 500 people just you know, you and five other people can go and make big waves. So, I love that that was really nice.

Joel
I hadn't heard that story from ever. I don't think I'd heard the story about Blockbuster Video. And, you know, like I say, I'm sure I'm the oldest person on the panel. But how wonderful it is to hear about video cassette tapes. And they were it was really quite wonderful. But you know, back in those days, good old blockbuster had to have dual inventory one copy with one copy without that takes up a lot of shelves. How wonderful it was to have DVDs come along, or you could turn them off. And of course now they're they're passe, anyway. Sorry.

Lizzy 16:30 How Roy went from voice acting to audio description
No, it’s fine. You guys can chime in whenever you like, I do want to get Roy in here. Now, how did you make? I guess it's not much of a jump. But how did you make the I'm gonna use the word anyway. Cuz now I can't think of a different word. But how did you make the jump from voice acting to audio describing what what was it that surrounds you

Roy
It’s really the same thing I focus on the performance of the the voice in audio description, there's so many different roles, there's the there's the casting of who chooses the voice, there's the the writer who does the heavy lifting. And Joe's class covers that explicitly, perfectly. It's like, that's what the book is all about, too. It's like that is the core of this work. And I've noticed that with all the many roles, whether it's the voice talent, or the engineer, and the engineer does stuff so that you don't have to keep futzing with the volume up and down and up and down throughout a show or the placement so that you're laughing at the same time as sighted people and they're laughing at the same time as you that that's all about the different roles. And any of the weakest links of audio description can make the whole thing just not the quality as Everette said and so a lot of the stuff that that I found wasn’t all a friend of mine had gone completely blind. And we were having a conversation at a really tough time in his life. And it was a point to talk about a TV show that we had seen the first season together. And the second season was when he went blind. And what happened was we had to talk about the funny moments and the cool things that happened in the pitching moments. There wasn't this, this gap where we had to say, Oh, wait, well, this is what happened, because he already knew. And it's because of all the efforts of audio description professionals that made that conversation with my friend happen, that it was that connection, or it was that one more thing that's that didn't separate us. And I found that in the various role of audio description and focusing on that experience for blind people, low vision people to be basically in parity to sighted audiences that there's a lot of communities here to grow. That experience for the audience, as well as for entertainment providers. And one of the cool things that's happening is more blind people who are professional who understand the different roles and their contribution to the roles and their experience their talents can make this work even. And that's, that's really exciting.

Lizzy 18:51 Joel teaching a class on improving audio description
I totally agree with that. And I know that something that you wrote about in your I think it was an April edition of the NFB was being able to connect with sighted people, just as Roy mentioned, like, at the same time, you know, you're laughing when they're laughing. I know I always hate that lag. When, you know, when something happens, everyone laughs and then it's, you know, Oh, she just spilled a glass of water and like, Oh, now I get and then I hold it in and I'm like, I don't want to laugh now because I'm like, everybody else has already done. You know, it's really awkward. So I totally agree. Roy with the, the the need for good audio description. Now, I believe Joel, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you teach a class on improving audio description. Is it right?

Joel
Yeah, it’s principally the right reading of description. I've been training folks. Golly, 20-30 years now all over creation. And it's, I think of audio description as a literary art form. It's about words. The visual is made verbal as a little trademark of my icon. Putting all your description associates the verbal and oral, a-u-r-a-l he points to his ear and oral l-o-l he points to his mouth. But it's about those words, you know. And that's what the bulk of the class is about I developed years ago for fundamentals to audio description training. First is observation. Second is, is editing, calling, you see what is most critical, but what are the key visual elements in what you see. Third is language is the words you use and how to use language to describe notably, and then finally vocal skills. So we do touch on vocal skills. But you know what I get it, I think it's great voice to, you know, emulate a Roy Samuelson. And really get to know about the writing. Because there's a synergy, ideally, between the words and the voicing of those words. Roy knows that. And that's what's so great about his classes. He's the only guy out there I know, I know of does wonderful for voice talents, really focusing in on voicing. So there's a synergy. I've done audio description Institutes for golly, the last 11 years or so for the American Council of the Blind twice a year, this past year, for obvious reasons, we did it virtually. And we have another one coming up. In early August, again, virtually five, half days of very intense training in audio just for for really anybody people who are blind people who are sighted who want to be audio describers, etc.

Lizzy 21:41 Describing audio with respect
And I want to get into that. And the next question. So keep this in the back of your mind. Not yet, but about how to go about becoming a blind audio describer. But first, I'd like to jump over over to Everett. And based on what Joel was just talking about with with regard to writing, audio description, and you being someone who is an avid consumer of audio description. This idea of describing with respect, and apparently that really is about what not to describe. So it's I suppose, you know what I mean? I suppose in my, in my research, they were saying that, for example, for an audio describer to say someone's motivation, a character's motivation would be disrespectful to the blind person, because they're presuming that we don't know the character's motivation, or the we didn't hear a certain sound that we did hear different things like that. How do you feel about that, as a blind consumer, and the idea of describing with respect?

Everette
it's critically important. I've listened to many different audio describers, and the two on the call, or this podcast, today are two of the best in the field. Both of them, you can find their, their stuff on Netflix, if you pay attention, you'll start to get their voices. Not all the time, Roy is pretty good at masking his voice. But they're they're both excellent. And they both do a really outstanding job of knowing when it's appropriate to give the right kind of information. You don't always have to know everything, there are lots of things that that we we can get from the film itself, and from the script, from the scenes, everything that's going on. But there are certain things that we won't get and a good audio describer will will know exactly what to give us. And then also a good audio writer out there, that's writing the audio description for the describer. That's really important too, that they're paying attention to the entire script. They're making note of what what to what what should be described and what should not be described. So that's kind of my take on it. I've, I've enjoyed it. And I'm still learning about what what I want and what I don't want. And I think I'll always continue to learn about that, as I you know, consume more content. (Lizzy and Joel combined)

Joel
The phrase I use often times is that description is quite often about what not to describe. You get rid of what is not necessary, get to the essence, because there's no time or because it makes for a better description. fewer words. So the motto is described when necessary, but don't necessarily describe.

Lizzy 24:45 Do audio writers double check their work with others
Is it correct to presume that there are audio writers, someone like yourself, who would just you know who will write the audio description, and then someone like, either Roy or Everett or me or Katelyn or anyone else can just kind of go in and describe how does that work?

Joel
Well, you know, first let me make a little bit of a distinction because the language can get a little mixed up here. When I, when I use the word describers, I'm referring to the person that crafts the language that writes the description. Now, in performing arts, oftentimes, it's the same person who writes it, or composes it in some way, and then voices it, but with media 97% of the time, there's a description writer, and then there's a voice talent, who voices the description. That's Roy Samuelson's job, and, which he does so so well as but I really do want to your point and and I want to echo what Roy said earlier, is you don't nothing about us without us type thing. I believe it's--. I had this discussion with Anil Lewis, who's a good friend. And, of course, part of NFB people who are blind, have to be intimately involved, all sorts of description. And oftentimes, you can find there was a question in the chat. There are any number of excellent blind folks who are, I should say, blind folks who are excellent voice talents, there's no reason why they can't voice description, they use Braille hard Braille, they use a refreshable Braille display, sometimes they repeat from recording, no reason at all, I can think of a number of people who are blind, who are excellent voice talents. And some of the best audio editors, I know, are people who are totally blind. Absolutely no reason they can't perform that function. As far as as far as the writing is concerned, duh one needs to receive the image visually, in order to describe it. But the person who's blind, who's an avid advocate and an avid consumer, like a, like a, like Everett, can absolutely, quote unquote, write description, as a consultant to a sighted person with the sighted person, it's kind of a joint process really, again, no reason why person who's blind, can't be an excellent writer, user of language. And, and that's so valuable thing. We're getting more that’s, that's becoming a part of the production of description, to a bit more degree. It's not where it should be. My good friend, Ben Bedika, in Germany, always produces description with a blind consultant, every script they produce there, and maybe someday we'll get there, too.

Lizzy
That's awesome. At this time, I'd check in with Katelyn and see if there are any questions from the chat. just reminded me, Joel.

Katelyn 27:45 How do we get audio description from commercials with no dialogue
Yeah, we already had one about getting are there blind people involved in audio description? And the answer is absolutely, yes. Someone did ask about audio description and commercials in the commercials that have no dialogue in them how getting you know how we get audio description for those?

Lizzy
I love that question. Because actually, I'm thinking of a commercial that I had to ask someone about the other day, cuz I see it all the time. And I'm like, What is this commercial about? You know? So Roy, why don't you take that one, because you do a lot of commercials, you have lot of experience with this. But

Roy
Thanks but let’s also go to back to some of the other things, echoing what Joel said that since I started coaching, blind talents, I always bring, I always bring the blind professional talents and pay them for their services for that, that that inclusion makes a difference. And the people that take the class, whether they're sighted or blind, say that that's that's an important part for them. And so this inclusion is not just tokenism, it's actually making the work better. It makes it better as I heard this from Rick Boggs, that audio description was created by blind people for blind people is, as Joel so eloquently said that this is when it comes to the roles involved. We've got the voice talent, which is my limitation. There's the writer, there's the the engineer, there's the casting, there's the quality control, those are just off the top of my head five different roles. And when it comes to the film, or even commercials that those different roles are distinct, and some people can do both. I think Joel is an excellent author if I could use that word that it's when we use these different role titles. It's a little clunky audio description narrator audio description, writer, audio description engineer, however, what it does is it opens up opportunities for blind people to know that they do have a place here. The ADNA, which is the audio description, network Alliance just produced a brilliant audio description track for a documentary that was done entirely by blind people, including the writing. And that is a gap for a lot of people. People find that very hard to understand. But in the same way that blind people can use an iPhone or an Android device, which is entirely screen. A blind writer can do this work. And that's great that the job is so focused on making sure that those kinds of people are included. And when I say those kinds of people, I mean those kinds who are skilled and talented and understand the work. And I think that as I look at my career, it's been grown from those opportunities of training of being collaborating with other people and making sure that those opportunities are there. And I'm playing and avoiding the question of the commercials. I think Procter and Gamble has several different audio description titles. They do. They've been, correct me if I'm wrong, anybody but Procter and Gamble has a dedicated team that works on audio description, and they do great work. I know there's a spectrum access commercial that was for sighted people, as well as blind people that included audio description, talking about audio description. And, you know, with the many different aspects of the entertainment industry, recognizing this work audio description was included for the Oscars, both the pre show the show and the post show. But fascinating about that is that blind people interacted and gave feedback to the live announcers of audio description, to say we want more facial expressions, or we want more costumes that there was literal engagement. And the entertainment industry recognizes that. For the last years, I've been working with the television Academy, the home of the Primetime Emmys to include audio description, narrators as credits to be able to vote for the Emmys, that's now happened. And that's not just an award, that's, it's being able to vote for the award. But it's inclusion in a way that gives the power to our audiences, as well as the creators of audio description. And so these are really exciting times. And I think commercials as well as video games, and trailers. All these things are happening a lot. There's a Facebook group called the “audio description discussion”. And Kevin and I started out two maybe a little more than two years ago. And it's it's been a great place for lively interactions. And these kinds of conversations are happening. And it's what's exciting is as necessary, as the mandate is with the FCC. These are other opportunities that companies are recognizing to bring not only access, but inclusion in a way that it's so exciting that you can hear my voice I'm gonna stop.

Lizzy
Now I know you're doing great. And I'm still gonna, I'm gonna give you more time to think about that commercial question, but—

Joel
I could add him as he Procter and Gamble. The impetus for a good deal of their work with commercials is from a woman, I do believe a blind woman, I've not met her. Sumaira Latif, she has been a real leader in doing this. And I've done many commercials for other groups, too. It's it's not as uncommon, as you might think. And the question about verbal dialogue, you know, every commercial, I guess, I think, at least has some sort of sound track. And as audio describers, we need to have respect for the creator of the work were described. They put those sounds there for a reason, and we need to let them be there. You know, when I described Empire Strikes Back years and years ago, the Star Wars film, how dare I, it would have if I tried to describe over da da, da, da, da, da. That's the theme. I better let that be there. And I did, like good itself. Yeah, even with no verbal dialogue, it's another kind of challenge when there's no words at all, different from a chat the challenge of getting description in in a quarter of a second, because that's something like that.

Lizzy 33:23 How do people know when something is going to be audio described
I'm going to ask you about that in just a second about, you know, how, how do you fit several words into such a small amount of space? And you know, but But first, I want to hop over to Everett. And I want to ask him, because Roy mentioned something earlier about the Oscars being audio described, and I had no idea. So how do people know when things are being audio described? Like, is there where can people go to kind of find out like, Oh, you know, the Oscars are going to be audio described this year?

Joel
You know, I founded the audio description project with the American Council of the Blind about 11 years ago. Precisely for that reason. It one of the reasons anyway, the audio description, project website, acb.org, slash, a. d. p, we make it our business to make certain that every television program that has description is listed on our website in real time. The DVDs that come out or what streaming services offer description, movie theaters that offer description, we have by state, every state that has description in museums that has description in performing arts. So that's that's one. Certainly certainly one resource. I see Everette’s back online

Everette
that's definitely the main resource because that's, that's the one I go to first and foremost, when I looked for it, and I even talked about that in the article that I wrote for the Braille monitor and on the blog, but the other areas you can look at NFB Newsline. If you if you look at the tv listings on NFB Newsline, you'll notice that there is every one of the ones that has audio description is listed there, it'll have a little ad symbol. And that Newsline, I'll read that to you. So you know, many of the movie theaters now, they also have it listed. Now when you call them on the on the phone, or if you if you get the the newspaper listings with movie theaters, they also will demonstrate have an ad symbol. In any of the movie theaters, if you go to their websites, also, they will show that, that what films are having audio description with it, which is now more than ever, almost every single movie is coming out with audio description, and it has a little ad symbol on it, then, if you live venues is the harder one to find. So you have to you have to really you have to kind of dig a little bit with live venues, you need to contact the venue itself and ask about that. If they don't, sometimes you'll get someone that just doesn't know. So try to get someone in authority. So ask questions, if you could speak to a manager you could speak to, you know somebody higher up to find out where it is. And if they don't have it at all. Well, now that's your opportunity to advocate for it. We've we've now gotten five different live venues here in Salt Lake City and the surrounding counties to start having their plays and musicals with audio live audio description, which is a lot of fun. So that's something that you you can do. And you can find it in those types of places as well.

Lizzy 36:43 – How can people start advocating
Now, Everette when you say that's an opportunity to advocate, what so for me, for example, when I'm advocating for things, like in school, for example, I kind of have like a framework of, you know, this is what I need. This is how I usually go about it XYZ. But if someone is new to advocating for audio description, and the theater, for example, says okay, what do we need to do? It's kind of like, well, I don't know, obviously didn't contact you. But just as like a, as a starter as a frame, you know, as a base foundation. What do you what do people need to do in order? What do theaters need to do in order to become more accessible?

Everette
So the first thing they need to do is they need to figure out how they're going to do it. Again, the audio description project, the website has information for theatres on how to do this, so I definitely refer them to that website. Or if you want to go ahead and get that information yourself and print it out for them. That's a good idea too. But there are several theaters will look at different ways of doing it. The new way is to give you give the blind individual that's coming to enjoy it, a little device a little handheld device, that's about the size of a transistor, an old you know, small portable radio, and you take that the headphones on times they do provide you with headphones, or you can bring your own headphones, I prefer to bring my own I don't really like to share headphones. You you have that device and you listen as you're out there. And then there's a the describe the person doing the narrating and the describe that narrating is in a soundproof booth. And they're providing the narration for you, you know, when when there is no dialogue going on, in the play or in the musical and, and so that that's if you can, you can explain that to the theater, that's usually enough to get them going in the right direction. And that's what you want to do you want to do you want to explain it in your own words, as an actual consumer, because and you want to tell them, you know, you're going to add business by doing this more blind people are going to come and there are a lot more blind out there than they realize, because, you know, the senior population is, is let's face it going blind and so and they love to go to plays and, you know, musicals. And so that's the kind of way you just have to kind of put it in words that make sense to theatre managers and that kind of stuff usually does.

Lizzy 39:22 – Conclusion
Next time on scene change, you'll hear questions from our live virtual audience, including those about audio description and musicals, bringing ad to a theater near you, and the costs associated with doing so. Spoiler alert for you, it'll cost nothing. Our panelists will also discuss the future of ad and you'll learn the who, what, when, where, why, and how of audio description trimmings, all this and more. If you'll stay tuned for part two of this program. airing On August 15, wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening today.

Katelyn 40:07 – ending
I'm Katelyn MacIntyre, president of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of "Scene Change". If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and visit our website at NFB dash p.a.d DOT org (nfb-pad.org). There you'll find links to our social media, membership, and resources for blind performers. Thanks to everyone who makes this show happen. "Scene Change" is produced by Shane Lowe, Chris Nusbaum, Seyun Choi, and Precious Perez with music by Ryan Strunk and Tom Page. Remember, you can be the performer you want. Blindness is not what holds you back. We'll see you next time.