Lizzy 0:00 – Intro explaining episode
Thank you for tuning in to this month's edition of scene change. This episode is a little shorter than others that we've produced in the past, but it really is a plug for more diversity and documentaries. I interview a sighted documentarian, who really finds it interesting and captivating, to show how blind people do art, and I also interview the blind artist as well. So it was a fun interview. In that we were able to catch both sides of the coin. But it's not directly related to the performing arts. So it might feel a little off brand for for the division and for our, our listeners who have been rocking with us since the very beginning. But our focus in this interview was to share what it's like to be part of a documentary, whether as a documentarian, or as the subject of the piece. 

So for anyone who's interested in highlighting blind performers, whether it be an individual, a foundation, or anything like that, please reach out to our division, and we'd be happy to connect you specifically to performers with disabilities, because that really is our focus here on the show. Similarly, if you are a blind person in school, for film or for documentary, or anything related, please, please, please reach out to us. Just through the usual channels, whether it be social media, you know, we're on Facebook, Twitter, email, it's NFBPAD@gmail.com, and all this is in the description as well, and you can also contact any of our board members, we would love to have you on the show, we definitely believe that it's possible for a blind person to be a documentarian or to work in film, and I would be very interested in interviewing you to learn all about how you do it, and to also share that story, share your story with our listeners. 

Lastly, I just like to encourage each of you to listen until the very end of the show, because afterwards, we will have some exciting news about our convention this summer, and the performing arts division, or sorry, business meeting that we held each year, and we're going to do is a really cool something really cool this year and it's directly related to scene change. I think that our listeners will like it, and we'll also have a bit of information for you about the NFB 21 concert that you should all look out for as well. So enjoy the show. As always, let us know what you think we are always reading your comments and adjusting the show accordingly. So enjoy, and I'll catch you next time.

3:35 – Intro
Welcome to "Scene Change", a podcast by the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division. All about equality, opportunity, accessibility, and the arts. Here, you'll learn about the techniques from performers in the know. We are changing what it means to be blind at one stage at a time. Thank you for joining us today.

Lizzy 4:03 – Intro to Anthony Saldana and Elizabeth Castellano
Hello everyone and welcome to scene change. My name is Lizzie Muhammad Park and I'm the Vice President of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division and your host of the show today we're talking about publicizing our message. I've got a documentarian here. Anthony Saldana from Queens, New York. He's sighted but he's happy to share a positive message about blindness. Welcome to the show. Anthony.

Anthony
Hi, thank you for having me

Lizzy
Hello everyone and welcome to scene change. My name is Lizzie Muhammad Park and I'm the Vice President of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division and your host of the show today we're talking about publicizing our message. I've got a documentarian here. Anthony Saldana from Queens, New York. He's sighted but he's happy to share a positive message about blindness. Welcome to the show. Anthony. Hi, and right along with him, we've got Elizabeth Castellano. She is a blind artist, not a performing artists but a visual artists and one of Anthony's previous subjects. Welcome to the show Elizabeth.

Elizabeth
Thank you so much. I'm I'm so glad to be here.

Lizzy 4:49 – How did Anthony get into documentaries
Awesome. Glad to have both of you. So Anthony--

Anthony
Yes

Lizzy
how did you get into documentaries

Anthony
When I graduated from I graduated from Queens College in around 2008, and, uh, you know, I, it was a real dose of reality when you know, you have to find a job and, you know, you're trying to understand the production world in New York City, and after taking out doing a whole bunch of productions and not getting paid in New York City I had to get I realized I had to get a day job, and once I started that day job, then I started getting bored at that day job, and I started, I started brainstorming, and one of the ideas that I really was interested in was, Hmm, I wonder how blind people perceive art, and, you know, in through asking myself that question, I found the National Federation of the Blind, and, you know, really started on this journey of being a documentarian.

Lizzy
Wow. So I just want to take one step back. So—

Anthony
Sure

Lizzy
you studied film at Queens College, I'm assuming

Anthony
Yes

Lizzy
and then, and then it was time to, you know, pay off the student loans. Right.

Anthony
Right

Lizzy
And, and you looked for a job?

Anthony
Mm-hmm

Lizzy
And was it an a, this is what were you thinking to do some something with disability related film? Or, like, what was that? What was the jump between studying film and then studying blind people doing art?

Anthony
I understand. You know, I, I was, I was just at my, at my day job, and I actually had a co worker who was deaf, and I was just just thinking myself that, that she couldn't, like, hear me, but I knew that she can understand, you know, my, my words, and through, just thinking about, about people who are disabled, I really started to think about, but I was interested in, like, how blind people perceive art, and it was something that I wanted to definitely look into, and so I did some research, and when I really started to think about it, there's not many films or television shows out there that are showcased the people who are visually impaired.

Lizzy
Right. So So do you have? Do you have maybe like a background specifically in the visual arts? Or maybe did did you know anyone who was blind? I'm still curious about where, like, where it all came from, you know what I mean? So I'm wondering, you know, is there or was it just did just, you know, just walking down the street one day, and you just said, ‘hmm, I wonder’ you know what I mean?

Anthony
No,  I understand. Um, no, I, I don't have anyone in my family that's visually impaired. But, you know, and I, there was a book that I read in my research, and it was so it has such an impact. It was just so powerful. The book was, was ordinary daylight, which was written by Andrew Potok, and he himself was a painter, and he was going visually impaired and he did he was so depressed about that, that he'd have this type of therapy where he would have bees sting his eyes as free as the hope that he recovered from it and that his story was so powerful that I just wanted to to meet more and more people who are blind and to and I realized that I you know, in Queens College learn these skills and wanted to I can use the these skills to help people and to tell tell amazing stories.

Lizzy
So I do appreciate your ability to think outside the box. It seems like you know, you're very interested in you know, sharing positive messaging, and, and sharing a can-do philosophy about blind people. So I'm curious to know, in the work that you do with filmmaking, directing, producing, can you think of any ways to make the actual film industry as far as production and directing go more accessible to the blind?

Anthony
First of all, having films have audio description. Just for just for the viewers. It's something that that I'm currently in, in producing a part of the straight off the canvas, which is which features Elizabeth, and so that's I think that's, that's very important for from the the viewers perspective, I think it is absolutely possible for someone who's, you know, has a visual impairment to be a director, or or be on the crew, you know, of films. You know, I actually did a paper and in grad school about visually impaired actors, and you know, it's definitely, you know, possible.

Lizzy 11:02 – Anthony’s documentaries that highlight blind people
Yeah, yeah. So it really is not something that we hear in the performing arts division, really strive for is authentic representation in the media, you know, and that's where I feel like this episode. Really, that's the category that I feel like this episode really falls into. Right, and so I'm glad that, you know, you're a huge supporter of that, and I'm also glad that straight off the canvas is audio described, because that's, you know, another very important part of accessibility, but yeah, you know, definitely share, you know, share with us, if you think of anything later too of any ways to make directing and producing more accessible because I think that's another interesting piece of it is to have is to have people, whether they be sighted blind, or anything in between, um, know that it's possible, and then also

Anthony
Of course

Lizzy
Creating opportunities for blind people to enter that space.

Anthony
Right right

Lizzy 
I'm glad that you're in LA, and that in that way, so another thing that I really appreciated about, you know, the, what I, what I saw in my research about you was a, your love for inclusive topics, and I can tell that that's something that you're really passionate about. So could you tell us a bit more about your documentaries, that highlight blind people?

Anthony
Yes. So um upon the reading the book that I just share with you, I realized that that I have a responsibility to tell stories about what I knew that I had to tell a story about what the blind community needs. So like, I had this, this, this goal to meet Elizabeth Castellano, but before I could do that, I wanted to do a documentary about National Federation of the Blind, and I, for about six months to almost a year, went to meetings at my local chapter in New York City, and I did, before I even picked up the camera to do an interview, I spent some time with the leaders at the organization, and one one moment that I'll never forget, never forget. I was it was after the it was after the meeting was over, and I went over to this young young man and I asked him, you know, I'm a documentarian I would, and I, what if I could tell any, if I could give any message to you know, the sighted community about being blind, what would it be? And he looked at me straight face, he said, Listen, when you turn off the camera, and the the film fades to black, I'm still going to be blind, and your main character is still going to be blind. So I think that in, in mainstream media, there's there's always the the goal of a story is to have a happy ending, and sometimes the happy ending is the cure. But in document in documentaries, that that's not the that's not reality. So I really, I think it's really important to tell real stories, and I think that the stories that I've told through my first documentary, were ordinary people and straight off the canvas is really about people. They're people and there they have in their relationships. You know, I think it's really important to show, you know that blind people, no one to ordinary people, and they can do anything from painting to being a car mechanic to being a ballerina or a doctor or lawyer. I even have a picture in in the documentary of a visually impaired martial artists, and he's holding a sword, and I got permission from him, and he was he's out in in England. So yeah, I think it's really important to tell stories of about people and their goals, and I'm really like, blessed to have met Elizabeth and to be able to tell her her story.

Lizzy
Yeah, and I think one important thing to remember too, is that if you, as we say, in the Federation, live the life you want, if you're living the life you want, then that is a happy ending to your story.

Anthony
Exactly, exactly, right

Lizzy 15:52 – Anthony’s next documentary
Yeah, and I think one important thing to remember too, is that if you, as we say, in the Federation, live the life you want, if you're living the life you want, then that is a happy ending to your story. You know. So, I think, I think that that's a definitely a good message to put out there. as well. Now, in meeting your goal of being able to interview and highlight Elizabeth Castellano, who we're about to get to in just a second. Now that you've, you've met that goal, what's next? What's your your next documentary? Do you want to keep—

Anthony
My co-producer Jason Figueira. At the time as we were filming this documentary, it turned out that he has obsessive compulsive disorder. He had at the at the time that we were filming there in the first year of filming, he had a, an aggressive form of of OCD, and he filmed him himself going through these, these almost like a mental breakdown where his father filmed him, you know, struggling to in in this horrible state of obsessive compulsive disorder. So we had so I would love to tell Jason story, like a behind the scenes and what happened during while we were filming this film, of how he we work together to overcome his mental illness, and we're, so we're in production of that as well. So that's the next one that will that we're I'm working on.

Lizzy 17:42 – How did Elizabeth get involved with the documentary
Oh, wow, that'll be really fascinating. So it does seem like your interest lies in diversity and inclusion. As far as your documentaries go. Wow. Now I'd like to ask Elizabeth a few questions about her involvement in the documentary and a bit about her background. So, Elizabeth, how did you get involved with the documentary?

Elizabeth
I believe, and I and I actually was speaking to Anthony about this the other day, because I was trying to remember how he found me. But um, what ended up happening was I was teaching art education in the New York City public schools, and I was contacted by Anthony, to set up a meeting where he could observe me doing my work as a teacher, and so that was how he found me, I believe it was an article in The New York Times that he read, and I've been in there a few times, and once he was able to find me, it was time to set up an appointment to come in and observe.

Lizzy
Now, did you have any concerns about like, possibly misrepresenting blind people or giving people the wrong idea or just like, you know, anything like that before going into it, because sometimes as we are just living our daily lives, people can misunderstand something that we do, and then that could have almost like the opposite effect. So how did did you? Did you? Did that ever cross your mind?

Elizabeth
No, not really. I mean, once he contacted me, we spoke at great lengths on the phone, and once I was able to speak with Anthony, I realized that what he was envisioning was something that I really wanted to be a part of. because growing up I, I am legally blind, but I went to school in a public school and I was only one of three legally blind students, and so my whole life has kind of been this. Trying to promote awareness to people about what it is like to be legally blind. What that means what I can do, you know, kind of trying to advocate for myself. So when I heard what he wanted to do in his in his documentary, I was really excited because it kind of aligned with a lot of the work I've I've been doing since I was a young adult.

Lizzy
Yeah, I saw that in your art. on your website, you mention a lot about different Well, you don't you don't, it's not specific. But you do mention that your art is affected by your identities and that it's about I don't want to misquote it something about like, like, morality comes into play there and you know, social justice and awareness and different things like that. So that definitely makes sense, and I thought it was really fascinating that you actually, on your website didn't mention anything about being a blind artist. Was that a conscious choice?

Elizabeth
No. No, I guess I didn't know it wasn't a conscious choice, and I think again, that has a lot to do with just my upbringing of being one of the few legally blind people in the school district then moving on to college where I was the only one and then entering a workforce that there were very few I think, to my knowledge only one other gentleman in the public school system that I knew of in New York City, who was also legally blind. So I always kind of just I think my attitude was not to really think about it as much or talk about it so much, because I really strove for inclusion and didn't want to stand out in any way

Lizzy
Yeah, yeah. No, I thought it was so funny i when i read it I said oh, it's because she wants to be looked at as an artist first and a blind like anything else like secondary that's what I thought that's what I thought you were gonna say.

Elizabeth
Like a subconscious thing I mean, I never even really thought about it um, and you know, you I don't go on my website all that often.

Lizzy 22:16 – Feedback of the documentary
No, that makes perfect sense. So is the documentary out yet?

Anthony
It is it is

Lizzy
So we'll have we how's the feedback been?

Anthony
It's been it's been going good I I'm trying to get it on a more of a national level. Right now it's it's it's played mostly in New York. But I'm trying to get it on different different film festivals. You know it's funny I played it for my mother you know once it was finished and she started crying and I said Mom, why are you crying? And she said because when Elizabeth passes away this is gonna her children will will have a wonderful memories based based on this documentary

Lizzy
Wow

Elizabeth
Now, I'm gonna cry Anthony I never even thought of that.

Lizzy 23:13 – How did Anthony find Elizabeth
Yeah, I mean these things definitely do. You know, live on obviously much much longer than we ever can but but also it reaches more people than we could ever you know, talk to in one lifetime so I'm really excited to see or to see the documentary and to see how everything you know and turns out and and you know, plays out in the in the film. So Anthony, how did you find Elizabeth? Was it through the NFB was it through the school district

Anthony
It was actually through as she was right it was through a me just trying to typing in I found a New York Times article written in about her and that led to me finding her website and when it was really funny like our first one of our first conversations when I explained to write I would love to do a documentary about you she was like yes, come in next week. Let's do this.

Elizabeth
That's true. I mean, it's always love people coming in to visit you know, see the teaching and stuff so when he's like, I want to come in and like oh, yeah, come on in.

Anthony
But you know, like we both had struggles especially during that first year. I had a traumatic back injury and I had to tell her you know, I unfortunately, you know, have to had to postpone production and you know, like I said, my, my buddy, who was my my helper, it had obsessive compulsive disorder. So we basically had a lot of personal issues over the last 10 years, but Elizabeth has been so gracious and to watch her to film her painting was therapeutic for her and myself so.

Lizzy 25:15 – How long did they film together
So you said in that first year So how long did you all film together?

Anthony
Like the filming itself?

Lizzy
Like you following her around and all that

Anthony
Okay, yeah. I would say maybe like, four, four years and then I'd come back. Every now and then I come back, like when we filmed extra stuff for the pandemic, but overall editing. Yeah, I met her in 2011.

Lizzy
Wow

Anthony
So, this this has been probably I we've been working on this for 10 years to finally meet you guys and tell you about what we've been working on.

Lizzy 25:58 – Elizabeth talks about being in the documentary
That's so cool. So Elizabeth, what's it like to be the subject of a documentary? Can you like describe it for us?

Elizabeth
It's amazing. I mean, it's been such a process you know, like Anthony will come up with some ideas and he came out he came to one of my exhibits, he came to film me working, um, he came out again to meet my kids and they're in part of the documentary so and every time they come out you know, I'm at a different point in my life. So to see it all come together to see it all evolve. I'm kind of evolving with the documentary which is it's so interesting to to see to see it all come together, and it's just it's amazing to that he he found me and he chose me I'm really honored to be a part of such a project it's just like monumental to me.

Lizzy
I mean, it seems like I heard in the background it sounds like you had a young child and I would assume that you know at one point maybe you were like you know maybe you only had like a certain number of kids and then like later on you like you probably even got to tape you know like throughout your pregnancy or like having a baby as an artist as a blind art you know what I mean that like it's it seems like another intersection that will come into play is also motherhood our family life I'm not sure if you guys were able to get any of that in the film but i'm i'm sure that it came through somehow is that—

Anthony
Yeah, did it did because um, you know, I as we said, we wanted to film in a classroom and just so many things happen like I did get to film in a classroom. So I, I went to, and we part of the film is focused on Lavelle School for the Blind. But anyway, getting back to your question, I'm sorry, I do that a lot. I apologize. I go on these these branches. I'm coming back. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to film her in the classroom. But I we had her we filmed her teaching her own kids and working with her own children. painting.

Lizzy
Wow

Anthony
Yeah

Lizzy
That's so cool. So Anthony, are you um, do you only do documentaries in the New York area? Are you well obviously, post COVID post COVID times are talking Are you you know, nationwide, how do you usually operate?

Anthony 28:21 – Where does Anthony do documentaries
Oh, well, I'm yeah, no, I am in New York. It is based in New York. But this this documentary, I'm not gonna stop until it goes worldwide. So Elizabeth, tonight we're going across the world

Lizzy
And how would someone go about working with you or another document? Oh wait, here's here's here's a step back from that question. Do you know if you are among your friends who are who also are documentarians and such? Are you one of the only people focusing on disability and inclusion that you know like with within your group? Or are you a part of any sort of organizations or you know, something along those lines that also focus on disability or there's another word for it when it's it's not called mental illnesses? There's like another way of saying it, but yeah, you know what I mean, mental health, mental health,

Anthony
You know, I went to grad school during the 10 years, and this became this was my, my thesis film to get a master's degree. At the time, I was, you know, in school. I, I was the only one doing this type of subject work. But I want you know, I try to stay watching documentaries to stay inspired. Um, but I wish I could I wish I could tell you a more like concise answer, like, well, I'm a part of this group, but really I tried to stay watching documentaries. Like I said before, you know, I was in a group of students who are getting the master's degree in this, you know, I got to work with several professionals and getting feedback on the film, but I was at the time I was the only one doing this type of work in the program.

Lizzy 30:47 – How to work with Anthony
Right? Wow. So how was someone who might be interested in working with you and want to see if you're interested in working with them? How would they go about doing that?

Anthony
Okay. Um, I so we do have a Twitter account and a Facebook account you can find me at at straightcanvas (@Straightcanvas). That's my my twitter and then Facebook dot com slash straight canvas (Facebook.com/straightcanvas), and you can also reach us at straight off canvas@gmail.com (Straightoffcanvas@gmail.com).

Lizzy
Yes, and for those of you who don't know, we've talked about it I don't know if he said it directly straight off the canvas is the documentary that we're talking about that we've been talking about, featuring Elizabeth Castellano, who is a an amazing blind artists, not amazing, because she's blind, but amazing, because her art is because her art is great, and she happens to be blind. So what does it what does it take to participate in a film? As far as you know, with the with the film subjects? Need to I don't know, contribute anything beyond their time? Or? What is that? What is that piece of it like the more logistical side of things?

Anthony
Um, it's, it's not, you know, firstly, firstly, the, the subject of the film, not only their time, but you know, I understand where I'm coming from, and I usually tell them, tell Elizabeth or any other subjects, you know, I want to tell your story, and, you know, at the time, you know, I also wanted to go into museums to focus on accessibility and museums, that that was a very difficult process, because every single Museum in New York City has their own rules about filming in, in the museum. So it's really about it was really important to me, to, to, at least meet meet these in individuals. So they can, you know, put in a good word, so that hopefully you can film where we want to film. So one of the other subjects of the film, her name is Elizabeth Axel, and she is an executive for Art Beyond Sight, and Art Beyond Sight was created to, to help make museums in this country and across the world more accessible to people who are blind, and it was really funny, because one of the other subjects in our film, I wanted, I really wanted to have an art therapist, to talk about how art can be a therapy for for blind children, and she was working at a school and the school had agreed to let us film there until a week later when they cancelled it, and you know, I understand what so you're, you know, you you have to have the perseverance and creativity to try to find different ways to tell a story visually and meet by meeting. Elizabeth Castle, I'm sorry, Elizabeth Axel. She said, Oh, we've been filming in museums for years. Here's our footage, and she gave us literally like, you know, 10 minutes worth of footage, and I was scrolling through the footage and I swear I swear Lizzie, one of the shots was in the same studio that they wouldn't, that I was trying to film in, and it was it was just, you know, it was great, and so you know, I'm just so grateful to not only Elizabeth but Jessica Jones and Lavelle School for the Blind you know, Art Beyond Sight so there was different I this documentary not only tells Elizabeth's story but it it also shows how art is, is it's important for art to be accessible art can be a therapy therapy for not only children, but adults, and it just has so many messages that you know, you go watch the film a couple times and get a couple different you know things when you watch it.

Lizzy
Yeah, yeah, I love that when you can just it's almost like each time you watch it, you just get a deeper perspective or you know, just you know, deeper knowledge. So that is really cool that this is one of those films so I can't wait for it to come out and Elizabeth Axel as a as a friend of the division. So always nice to say hear about her and you know, glad that she could connect you with some people did. But I mean, those are all my questions for today. If anyone listening is interested in taking part in a documentary, do email the division and we will put you in contact to see if it's a good match, and if there are any other documentarians out there who are interested in filming blind performers also reach out to us and who knows, maybe you all could start a an organization. I don't know diversity and inclusion and documentary, you never know what uh, what might happen. But thank you both for joining us today. We've loved having you on the show.

Anthony and Elizabeth
Thank you so much
Lizzy 37:07 – Talking about the annual convention in July
For those of you who don't know about the annual gathering that is the National Federation of the Blind convention, it is the largest group of blind people who come together each July to discuss and plan for a number of things, it could be employment or parenting, legislative action that needs to take place in the upcoming year, could be previous legislative action that took place last year, and of course, the performing arts, our division will have an a business meeting, and we do have it each year we've been having it for over 10 years already over 15 even, and this year, scene change is going to do a live recording for all who attend our Performing Arts annual business meeting. So you have to register ahead of time, and I'm not guaranteeing that you're going to be able to vote this year. Well, this you're not we're not having any voting. But you know that you'll be able to register in time because I'm not sure when you're listening to this. If you're if we were able to get to this, you know, in time, and then I would definitely encourage you to register. If you're listening to this in August, you've already missed the meeting. But that's fine. There's always next year. So it really just depends on on when you're able to hear this, but I would highly encourage you to go on our website, everything is linked in our description, and there you'll be able to find more information about the annual business meeting, you'll be able to find our agenda and find links to learn more about the larger convention which is the NFB convention our our business meeting is just a few hours out of an entire week. So you'll be able to find links where you can learn about, alright, you know the convention as a whole. You'll also be able to learn about some of our other events, including the NFB 21 concert, where we've partnered with the national organization who runs the entire convention to bring bring some good entertainment for everyone. So up next we'll have a promo about that where you can find more information about our NFB 21 concert called stronger together. That'll be held on July 6, and you really won't want to miss that we've got some great talent for you. If you have any questions at all, please, please please reach out to us don't hesitate to reach out to us, and thank you for supporting our division and scene change in all that we do.

Unknown 40:20 – Promo for NFB 2021
The National Federation of the Blind and it's performing arts division present. One Voice, a fundraising convention concert sponsored by super sense. Join us Tuesday, July 6 at 8pm, Eastern anywhere and everywhere to watch blind performers of all styles showcase their abilities on our virtual stage, enjoy a night of performance and support our work changing what it means to be blind one stage at a time. Here's a snapshot of what you might experience.

Unknown 41:20
It will be an event you won't want to miss so gather your whole family to get tickets, visit www.nfb.org slash concert (www.nfb.org/concert) tickets at $20 that can be purchased online or by calling the independence market. We share one voice, we are stronger together and we reunite at NFB 2021

Katelyn 41:46 – Outro
I'm Katelyn MacIntyre, president of the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts division. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of "Scene Change". If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and visit our website at NFB dash pad DOT org (nfb-pad.org). There you'll find links to our social media, membership, and resources for blind performers. Thanks to everyone who makes this show happen. "Scene Change" is produced by Shane Lowe, Chris Nusbaum, Seyun Choi, and Precious Perez with music by Ryan Strunk and Tom Page. Remember, you can be the performer you want. Blindness is not what holds you back. We'll see you next time.